ļ»æ[00:00:00] So today I'm joined by someone who I'm really excited to chat to because I think we have very similar experiences and journeys and I think we're going to really love diving into this conversation. So do you want to introduce yourself, tell everyone who you are and what you do? Yeah, for sure. And thank you so much, Dema, for having me.
[00:00:16] I am Andrea Libro. I am a business coach and scaling strategist for solopreneurs. I do two things, so bear with me. So I, uh, help service providers to find more purpose and profit in their business through pivoting and having really aligned offers. And then I also do systems, aligned systems builds, cause I'm also a certified online business manager.
[00:00:40] So I help people in very two different audiences, two different ways. So, so yeah, that is what I do. I would love to hear more about why you work with the pivots because, I mean, I think we've all been on them, um, at least once and they are hard. Sometimes they are very overwhelming and stressful. So I'd love to know, like, how did [00:01:00] you get there?
[00:01:00] Why is that your thing? Yeah. So this is my thing because I have pivoted multiple times and. I started in 2019 as a VA, then I became, I accidentally created a agency that was like, because my business led me to that place. And I burned it down a few months later. Cause that was not what I wanted to do.
[00:01:21] Became a certified online business manager, got really burned down from doing one on one work, got into coaching. Like, so I have done so many things and I have made all of the pivot mistakes. And now I'm in this place of having a business that not only I love. But that I know from all of those mistakes, I know exactly what to do now.
[00:01:43] And I don't see people talking about pivoting so much. It seems like something a lot of people like, you know, start your business, scale your business. And there's this messy in between that I feel like people don't talk about. And that's this pivoting and pivoting is natural. And it's amazing. And it can be really fun.
[00:01:59] And it [00:02:00] can be something that is such an amazing part of your business. But again, like it's something that people don't talk about. So I really want to bring awareness to it. As you were saying that I was thinking, you know, why is that? And thinking back to when I have made big pivots, I think there's a lot of shame around that pivot.
[00:02:17] You know, are people going to think I don't know what I'm doing? Are people going to think I'm flaky and I'm inconsistent? Are people going to think this thing was a failure? And, you know, it was a lot of that that got in my way. Is there anything that you see come up all of the time with your clients?
[00:02:32] Yeah, I don't, you know, the thing that comes up a lot more, or at least something that's verbalized to me, a lot more than the shame, because again, if they're feeling shame to them, they're not reaching out to me, right, because they're not ready to pivot yet, but it's that they want to grow, they're, they're evolving, they've evolved past what they're doing, but they don't know exactly what to evolve into, or they don't know that the thing that they want, or the thing that they're amazing at, they can [00:03:00] actually make money at it and help people with.
[00:03:02] So like how to actually turn their, their magic into something profitable that's also super aligned with them. And you said earlier, it's that kind of messy bit that isn't talked about. And I think that's so true. It is the mess, but it's, almost necessary mess, I think. Because, I mean, if you don't pivot, you end up, what, staying in something that doesn't feel good for you.
[00:03:23] And, um, and I'm sure you, you know, from experience, just like I do, like, it just doesn't work long term. No, exactly. So, so for instance, if I can give an example, when, you know, I started my business because I wanted freedom. And I started as a virtual assistant because I was like, Well, I can do that, you know, it wasn't like a purposeful, like, oh, I meant it now people are, you know, they love it.
[00:03:46] That's amazing. But for me, it wasn't like, oh, I'm going to do this for the rest of my life. It was, let me go in, let me learn what this, what this, it was like the doorway, you know, like put in the door, let me learn what this is all about and grow from here. So people evolve and you grow and you learn [00:04:00] new things.
[00:04:00] And it's only natural that your business is going to do the same. And so if you hold yourself back, so if I had stayed, yeah. In my, this VA agency that I accidentally created, would I be doing amazing? Would I be making all of this money? Sure. But would I be having fun? Would I be waking up every day like, oh, I'm so excited to jump into this and like do all these things?
[00:04:20] No, because, because, you know, through all of my experience and everything that I've been doing throughout these years, like, I've learned the place where, where, where my magic is and it's not in leading an agency. You know, so I think it's really important to recognize that. And I think that's one of the really, really important things because so many people are doing things in their business that they don't love doing and why, like, we don't have to, you know, I'm curious about you.
[00:04:43] Cause you keep hinting at what you're pivoting journey. So I'm curious what your story is. I'm going to turn this around on you. No, mine is, mine is very similar. I'm nodding along because it seems like I'm listening to myself. So I started as a VA back in 20. 18 ish, grew into an agency by accident [00:05:00] because things were so successful, ran that, didn't like it, made me feel all sorts of ick, um, but did it because it was what I was supposed to do or it's what everyone else was doing and it felt like the logical next step in order to grow and scale and do all the things that I was seeing online.
[00:05:15] And then I was like, I don't actually enjoy this. This is not where I'm meant to be. And it took me ages to make that decision to close the agency down because of all the things I just mentioned, um, and go all in on sort of mentoring and coaching, even though I knew it was a hundred percent the right decision, because there was all this stuff in my head that I was working through.
[00:05:34] And a lot of it. It was, and I think you kind of alluded to this, but it looked successful from the outside. Everyone else would have said, Oh yeah, Gemma, she's doing really well. You know, she's winning awards and she's got all these clients and this agency that's doing really well, but internally that didn't feel successful.
[00:05:52] And it was for me going on that journey of, well, what is success for me and how do I shift this so that what I do with my day to [00:06:00] day life feels successful for me, regardless of what anyone else thinks. Thank you Yes, I have 100 things to say about that. So sit back because I'm like, let's dive into that.
[00:06:11] The, the, what is success, the online industry to define success as X number of people. amount of money per month and that's it. That's where they stop. And so I think that gets into, you know, there's so much noise and there's these like big gurus and that's how they decided to market things. And then that was such a trend for so long.
[00:06:30] It's still a trend, but I think, I don't know, I hope that things are changing a bit now, um, in terms of what does success mean? Because earning X amount of money per month is, Lovely, but why? It's the why behind it. It's the, what's your, what's your vision? What's your dream life? Like, what is the things you actually want to do with this money?
[00:06:50] Because the point where I was earning the most money in my business was when I was the most miserable. And so the money doesn't matter. It matters, but only [00:07:00] to the effect of Am I living this vision that I actually want to live? You know, so for me, I wanted freedom. I wanted to move abroad. And I did that two years ago.
[00:07:10] I moved from the US to Spain. And so this was a huge part of this thing that I really wanted to accomplish. And, and this was why I was doing my business, you know, so it's like, what are the things that you want to do? With your business and in your life that your business is going to support and I think this is like so key and people people often don't think about it or they're not intentional with it and it's not until you are that you actually create the business that was one of the pieces to actually create a business that is so aligned that you're so excited for that you wake up every day excited for and then and then it feels so much better.
[00:07:46] I think it's one of those things that is just not talked about enough. I remember when I first started business and I was trying to figure out how to run a business and it was all very much prices and packages and ideal clients. And I know all that stuff is important. [00:08:00] Um, but I really didn't see anything around what do you actually want to do?
[00:08:05] You know, it sounds so simple, so basic, but I think it's easy to get swept up in what everyone else is doing, especially when you're online a lot. And when you start to think, actually, this doesn't feel good. It's very hard to know where to turn or what you're doing wrong or what you should be doing instead.
[00:08:20] And what I've realized over the years is that my happiest moments are not Instagrammable. Like they're just not, it's when I'm walking around the supermarket and I get to put whatever I want in my trolley without looking at the price. That doesn't make a good Instagram post. It just doesn't. It's not a beach in Bali with a coconut.
[00:08:38] But. I think for me it was getting okay with the fact that I have to, I'm the one who has to live with my life, you know, I'm the one who has to actually live it every day, so it has to feel good for you doesn't it, otherwise you're You just create something that, I mean, you may as well have a job if you don't enjoy working every day.
[00:08:55] Right? Because you're just as miserable as you are. You left your job because you wanted something [00:09:00] different. Yeah. And, and I actually talked about this so funny today, um, I posted something on threads in my stories that was about how we had this excitement, I'm sure you can remember when you started your business.
[00:09:11] I was 2019. You were a little bit before me, 2018. I was like, Oh, this is like the super scary. You And like, totally frightening, but like really exciting. And I'm going to do it because this is what I want. And you were so determined and we had all this energy. It was exciting and nothing was going to stop us, you know?
[00:09:24] And then I think what happens is that people forget that piece of it. And then they go back into this conformity piece. So like you did that big, brave thing and you got your success quote unquote, right? Cause you like got to leave your job and do this. And then you're like, wait, there's so much more to this.
[00:09:39] And you forget that you still can create the thing that is that you should be doing that's meant for you and it is just, I don't know, I just think that there's not enough spoken about this because it's not sexy. You know, you're saying like, like going to the grocery store is not sexy. It's not sexy talking [00:10:00] about like, Like yeah, like create the life where you can go to the grocery store in the middle of the day and buy whatever you want, you know, like, like, if that's the thing that you want to do.
[00:10:06] So people forget this. And there was also this really big trend of all these cookie cutter programs. Like I made this much money and I'm so successful and copy exactly what I did. And you can be successful too, which by the way, don't work. And I have a big vendetta against them because Because yeah, it works for them, of course, and it'll work for a portion of people.
[00:10:24] But if it's not, if the components of it are not, if you're not really amazing and like, you're not drawn to it and not excited about those, those things, it's not going to work for you. So there's been a lot of, of like, I don't know, this surrounding this industry. So it's just, I don't know. It's just like, I really want to bring awareness to the fact that there's a different way of doing things and that's okay.
[00:10:44] And you're going to be so much happier once you lean into that and more successful and have a sustainable business that you actually love. And it makes complete sense. It makes complete sense to focus on that and to talk about it. I think the thing I struggle with is, uh, [00:11:00] you can talk about all this stuff and there will be a certain group of people who resonate and love it and they're like, oh my gosh, thank God you're talking about this.
[00:11:06] I still think though, unfortunately, in the social media space, The sexier content that is around money and travel and retiring your entire family or whatever it is, it still does better and it still seems to make more money. And I think, you know, the conversation I have with a lot of people is people want to be happy.
[00:11:27] They want to chase what feels good to them, even if that's sitting on the sofa in their pajamas with a bag of crisps, right? That might be their favorite thing in the world. But they look out onto Instagram and they see all these people who are going viral. And it's not that content that's going viral.
[00:11:40] So how do you think we, we start to change that? Like, what do we do? I was just having a conversation today with somebody and they made a really good point of if you look at what's happening in the influencer space now, it's the more Quote, unquote, like authentic, like people want more real content. They want more reality because [00:12:00] people know that these things are fake.
[00:12:01] You know, they know that this is not real life. We have this whole situation of all these celebrities being blocked out for various reasons and not speaking out against things and whatnot. And they're like, your life is unattainable. Like, I don't care anymore. Like I want more realness. And I think slash hope that that will also carry down even more so into our industry and on our, our online space where people are like, you know what?
[00:12:22] Like, that's great. But. Is that true? And similarly, with this movement that's happening now, I think that what can happen in our space of if enough people, if enough, quote, unquote, smaller, you know, people, coaches, whoever are talking about these things, then this will add up and this can create this movement and create this shift.
[00:12:43] Because so many people have gotten burned as well, right from these fancy, these sexy coaches who don't actually deliver on what they're doing. And then they come to people like us who are like, Hey, guess what? Like, they, they can actually help us. I'm like doing what, what they promise and. The [00:13:00] more that this is spread, like, I think that things can shift.
[00:13:02] There's always going to be these, these people, these flashy people, you know, and, and whatnot, and that's fine. Like, they can have their space, and there's enough people for, there's enough out there for everybody to connect with who they need to connect with. So it's almost like the people who need you are going to find you, I feel like.
[00:13:19] And even if they go through them first and then come to you, that's fine too, because they realize, at least they figured it out eventually. Mm hmm. Yeah, it's, it's a tough one, isn't it? Because everyone has to choose every day. How do I want to show up online? Who am I going to engage with? Who am I going to follow?
[00:13:34] How am I going to speak to people in my content? And for me, at least I think it's very much, you've got to sit with yourself, haven't you, and just ask, you know, how do I want to show up in the world? Like forget everyone else for a minute. Do I want to show up in a way that talks about. Purely, you know, money and wins and all that kind of stuff or do I want to share the reality and that's all we can all do and sharing what we're comfortable with.
[00:13:57] And I do think you're right. I think there is a shift and [00:14:00] I think I'm seeing more conversation around. Actually, can we talk about what the hell is going on behind the scenes and all of this messiness and this confusion and the mistakes we're all making because that is the reality. It's not all shiny.
[00:14:12] Right. Oh, yeah. It's 100 percent the reality. And I've also seen recently some coaches who were so focused on the money now shift into, you know what? Like, this is what I actually want to talk about. And I felt like I had to only talk about the money and like, so, and I see them coming out of that. So I'm just hoping that this is a thing that's going to catch on more and more.
[00:14:31] And so if people like us just keep talking about it and being real and being real people, and then the other people. I think that a lot of people resonate with that. And maybe when somebody's like really brand new in the space, they get, you know, they kind of get starry eyed towards these kind of bigger gurus who are very flashy and, and then like, Oh, wait a second.
[00:14:52] And then kind of had this like awakening, this realization that maybe that's not the best road to go down. And then there's people like us waiting for them, you know? [00:15:00] So it's kind of like when they're ready, they're going to come and they're going to connect with you. So. I think that's what it is, and I'm not, it's not that I'm not concerned, but I think that the more that people like us show up, the better that it's going to be.
[00:15:12] Yeah. No, I totally agree with you. Um, going back to the, the piece about pivoting for anyone who is listening right now and they're thinking, oh, that's me like I'm, I'm about to pivot or maybe I'm in the middle of a pivot and it feels very messy and scary. What would your advice be to those people? Yeah, 100%.
[00:15:30] So the thing, if I may, I would love to back up in terms of even people who are thinking about pivoting and like, Oh, what do I do? And it's really taking count of how do you feel? Like, what are the things that you're doing in your day to day that you just feel so good doing? What are the things that you feel amazing at and that you're so good at?
[00:15:52] And maybe you don't even realize that you're so good at them because they just Low for you, you know, maybe people are asking you these things. So really start to pay attention and tune into [00:16:00] that. And that's going to help you figure out the road to take. So like where you want to pivot into, and when you're like, okay.
[00:16:08] I really want to change. And it can be hard, especially for service providers. Cause that's who I work with because it's service providers, as you know, it's a lot of client work. So it's a lot of your day is focused on other people. So when you want to work on your own business, it. Yeah. can feel difficult.
[00:16:23] It can feel heavy because you oftentimes put your own business at the, on the back burner. So the very, very first thing before anything else is really giving yourself permission. Give yourself permission to change and grow and to move into your next stage and next level of what you're doing. And then beyond that, the next thing would be to get really clear.
[00:16:41] So what we were talking about earlier is this, what are the things that Vision of what do I want my life to look like? What is my dream life? What is this vision that I have? What is my mission? And have that be the north star that guides you in every decision from this point forward. So without that north star you get like you can't very squirrel squirrel well I need to do this I [00:17:00] need to do that you know and and it can feel very crazy.
[00:17:04] And then the next thing would be to really create some space. So make yourself and your business the priority. And this might be a tricky piece, right? Because this could involve things like, oh, if I'm spending so much time on my client work, how do I do this? So this could be like maybe bringing on some help, maybe actually restructuring how you work your offers, maybe seeing things like what can you systematize, maybe doing things like, oh, like, let me raise my rates, I can let go of somebody, create some more space.
[00:17:33] So there's some nuanced things within that to really give yourself space, because you need time and you need money to support yourself right in this transition. And then the other two pieces would be to really prioritize the inner work. So. When you're pivoting, especially, you need this conviction, you need this belief that this thing, this goal I'm going for, is something that I am [00:18:00] meant for.
[00:18:00] This is my path and I'm going to have it. Because, and also, like, the timeline, I would recommend, honestly, give yourself six months. Because it's a journey and you want to be intentional about it and you can't just flip one day to the next and then all of a sudden wake up and you're doing something new.
[00:18:15] You know, it's a journey to pivot into this new thing. So in that journey, you really need to, there's going to, limiting beliefs are going to come up. You know, there's a lot of things you're going to feel like, oh, this is a new thing. Am I really meant for this? And all these things are going to happen because you're on this edge of this new thing.
[00:18:30] So doing the inner work, having these practices, embodiment, mindset things, whatever you do, Prioritize that. And then have like an actual plan. So what's my goal? Break it down, make it digestible, and have a literal plan to follow to get to where you need to go. Because without that it can feel extremely overwhelming because it's a really big, as you know, it's a really big shift.
[00:18:55] And so I think these things will help to make it. Much more smooth. [00:19:00] And have some fun. Oh yeah, easy to forget that one, isn't it? When you're so focused on business, it's so easy to forget. Oh, I'm supposed to be enjoying this at the same time. Because this is, it took me a while to realize that this is not a sprint.
[00:19:13] This is a marathon and I don't have to do everything that I want to do tomorrow because the results are not going to be nearly as good as if it was in a few weeks from now. So doing things with intentionality and thinking about them and just taking your time and enjoying it. You'll, you'll then have a lot more fun and will want to stay doing what with what you're doing.
[00:19:32] Definitely. Such good advice. And is there anything mistakes wise that you made along the way that you would just want to warn people like, don't do what I did? Yes, 100%. Um, so in my pivot, so the very, very first one that I mentioned was the agency. So. The whole reason I created an agency was similar to you as getting all of this work.
[00:19:57] And I was like, okay, I guess now [00:20:00] I'm supposed to bring on help. So it's really, and then, you know, blah, blah, blah. We didn't like it and burn that to the ground. So this is one huge mistake is letting your business lead you. So how did I. not make this mistake in the future was that I really developed my intuition and I really started to get in touch with my own intuition and what I wanted and not what I thought was my only choices.
[00:20:27] You know, I, I didn't know what my choices were and instead of sitting there and figuring it out, I just, okay, I just move forward. And it wasn't the right choice. And that's fine. I learned from that, but we don't have to do it that way. So now, when I make these decisions, I actually sit with myself. I'm like, okay, I want to do this.
[00:20:42] How do I feel? How do I feel in my body? Is this something that I'm excited about? And past the imposter syndrome, you know, the doubts and all of that, like, what's my actual true feeling with it? And is this aligned with my body? My vision, you know, so like these are some very important [00:21:00] things that I do now that I didn't do then where I just like okay I just you know, I just did it the next time I pivoted I took Way too long to do it because I felt stuck.
[00:21:10] I was doing all of this one on one OBM retainer client work and I knew I was ready for a change, but I kind of ignored it because again, I was making this money and I was like, okay, like, this is fine. I can do this for now. I can do this for now. I can do this for now. And it went so long that I completely burnt out.
[00:21:27] I completely burned out. I resented my business. I procrastinated on my work and the burnout lasted like a year. It was really bad. So it took me a really long time to recover from that and it forced my pivot in a way. So if I were to do this again, I would take the step back and be like, okay, I'm feeling this way, right?
[00:21:49] Oh, I'm having these thoughts. How can I put this in action? How can I start this while I still am working on these things? So that way I can shift in a very intentional way [00:22:00] that doesn't feel crazy and, you know, and, and avoid the burnout. I, again, it feels so close to my own story and the burnout piece, I think is really important to highlight as well, because sometimes when you're running a business and maybe it does feel successful in some ways, like with the clients and the money, and you kind of just tell yourself, well, I'll just carry on because.
[00:22:21] What's the worst that can happen? But actually you're so right that burnout can take a long time to, to deal with and to come out the other side of. And actually, you know, it, we're trying to run so that we can get the results. But actually, if you end up burnt out and you end up having to take time off and slow down, you potentially got there slower anyway, because you were trying to run.
[00:22:42] Yeah, exactly. And this goes back to the, this is a marathon, it's not a sprint. Mm-Hmm. . And there's no, maybe this is where the shame comes in, is that you see like another aspect of the shame is that you see people online and like, oh, I did this and this and this, and you're seeing all these wins, and you're like, oh, I'm not at that place.
[00:22:59] And you feel like, [00:23:00] oh, let me put in the work so I can be at that place and catch up with this person or, or, you know, fall in line with where I'm supposed to be, quote unquote. Mm-Hmm. . But it means absolutely nothing if I was burnt out to the point where, where I could not, like, I had the space for an OBM client and I quote unquote needed it.
[00:23:19] And I was like, okay, I need to make a little more money. I'm like, what's going on? And I couldn't even apply. I couldn't bring my fingers to the keyboard to apply to work with somebody else. It was not going to happen. So. I don't know what the expression is, but I feel like it's something about chopping off my foot.
[00:23:33] I don't know, there was some sort of expression in there, where I handicapped, yes, something like that, where I handicapped myself, like completely. And it could have been really bad. I mean, it was really bad, but it could have been even worse. So our health, our mental health is the biggest priority of all.
[00:23:50] And So, and this goes back to everything, not just how your, it's how your business is set up. Are you working too much? Are you supported? Are you taking care of yourself? You know, [00:24:00] all of these things, like our mental health, without it, we have nothing. So, when starting to feel these signs, you're going, you know, there's going to be some, there were signs that I was burning out.
[00:24:10] I said, no, I can do it. I can do it. I can get past this. I'm doing, you know, all of these things and you cannot. You absolutely cannot. So, you have to take care of yourself and listen to yourself. And like, you know, the answer is inside of you, you know, you know, what you, you, what your next step is, what you're being called to do, but it's really taking the space and the time to listen to yourself and trust yourself that that is what you should be doing.
[00:24:35] Oh, this is such a good conversation. I could literally talk about all of this forever. Um, if anyone's listening and they want to come and work with you or connect with you, where can they find you? Yes, I hang out on all the social media places. Um, at soulful biz coach, Andrea. And also I have a scaling, a soulful scaling roadmap for service providers.
[00:24:57] If you are questioning like, Oh, [00:25:00] I don't know, I want to do something. I'm not quite sure what it is that I meant for next. This roadmap really helps you to get started. One, it gives you a whole lot of different suggestions. Two, it gives you the questions that you can ask yourself to guide yourself to figure out what your unique magic is and what your dream life vision is to make those decisions.
[00:25:16] And that is at dancingleafsolutions. com slash roadmap. So I'm super excited to, yeah, to chat with people. And if you are interested in pivoting, and this is a thing, chat with me about it, because this is what I do. This is what I love talking about. So I am super excited to connect with, with you about that.
[00:25:34] Thank you so much for this conversation. It's been so good. Thank you so much for having me.
