[00:00:00] Today on the podcast I am here with Jessica or Jess, which do you prefer? Either. Either. Okay. Um, do you want to tell us who you are and what you do? Yes, of course. So my name is Jess Pie or Jessica Pie. Um, I am a business and mindset coach and mentor. My main thing that I'm known for is fun and money. And what I mean by that is I'm a generator.
[00:00:34] So of course I'm always going to be focusing on what lights me up, but also The boring parts of fun and the boring parts of money in the sense of fun and money when it comes to business isn't just only focusing on what feels good. So all of my clients as a three five as well have learned from all of my trial and error in pursuit of a fun and money business.
[00:00:56] I love this because those are two words I would never have put [00:01:00] together a few years ago. It's so true. It's so true. I feel like it sometimes feels like an edge to just be like, I run a fun and money business as well, because people shy away from the money part, but also we're in this because we want to create the life that we dream of.
[00:01:15] And money is a huge part of that. Mm. It's like we shy away from the very thing that we want to generate. Like it's bad to say I'm a coach because I also love making a lot of money as well as serving my clients. Yeah. Well, how did you get into this? Was this your kind of first business or did you kind of evolve and end up here?
[00:01:34] So I have been very multi passionate, girly. If you know human design, if any list does know human design, the third line is. A lot about trial and error and also having a lot of passions, but having the bravery to release them when they no longer serve you. So I actually started my first business when I was 12, selling, making and selling bracelets in school, which my mom still has in her loft because I don't think they sold very well.
[00:01:59] [00:02:00] Um, but I'm actually a fine art graduate. So when I was in uni, I studied in Nottingham. All of my work was sculpture work by the end of it. And it was based on, like, the titles were excerpts from my journal. It was all based on manifestation and mindset. But then in lockdown, I was working full time as a waitress, 60 hour weeks.
[00:02:20] Panic attacks on shift because I gave someone the wrong steak. That kind of vibe where like, you don't even have a, a. A centimeter of brain capacity left and in lockdown, I really use it to my advantage. And one of my friends from uni actually said when I started to train as a coach, when I started to do all this, it started as an Instagram and a blog about manifestation.
[00:02:44] There's a comment that always stuck with me. And it was that my friend said. I feel like you're doing the same things, but you just weren't, you're doing what you're meant to be doing, but you were using the wrong medium when you were creating sculptures about it instead of teaching and guiding people on it.
[00:02:59] [00:03:00] I love the way our friends always say things in a way that makes so much more sense than we do. Literally, I'm surprised that I got through that without crying because every time I hear that or tell someone about that, I just well up because it's so true. I never felt like I fit within the fine art, like, environment and I love, I'm such a creative.
[00:03:19] I see, you know, I see, what I'm going to allude to your face. I see, um, content creation, offer creation as art. And so it's so nice to still have that, but also to know like, this feels so much more meant for me than creating a neon sculpture or planning a full exhibition. It really just makes me think of the fact that we need to sometimes play around and experiment before we find our thing.
[00:03:46] And also. That thing changes. You know, what your thing was 10 years ago might not be what it is now, or the form that it takes now. And I just love the idea of, you know, you, you had your thing, you were just finding the right way [00:04:00] to express that thing. And I feel like, love it. Yeah, I feel like that is everyone as well.
[00:04:04] And one of the biggest things that I see with the coaching industry, with any career, any passion, any, Um, like hobby kind of as well is this fear that it won't be forever. And when I started, it was originally called All Mystic, No Meg, and it's only this year that I changed my account name to The Jessica Pie because I realized I'd been hiding behind something that wasn't my name because when I started, I didn't want anyone to know it was me before I was a coach.
[00:04:32] But when I started my blog around mindset and manifestation, I remember being stood in my bedroom of my shared house in Fallowfield, I don't know if you know it, the student area of Manchester. Um, and I'd just recently graduated and I was stood there thinking, well, I don't hold anything down. I've never held a passion or a career or a hobby down in my life.
[00:04:55] Why would I, why should I do this blog? Excuse me, what [00:05:00] if it doesn't last forever? And I feel like it must've been my higher self coming through or my future self coming through because something in me was like, let it take you to the next thing. It doesn't have to be, but you, if you don't do it, you won't get the next thing.
[00:05:14] And I feel like that's how I've always approached business. And that's why I, for example, if you see people leave in the coaching industry, I'll celebrate it because it's having the courage to release what no longer serves you, but you committed all in because you let it take you to the next thing. We put so much pressure on things, don't we?
[00:05:35] To sort of be everything for us forever. And when I look back at my own journey, there are things that I loved for a period of time and they served me then. But I had to go through them no longer serving me before I could get to whatever was next for me. Yes. It's even like when you create an offer that you are obsessed with, and it really serves you in that season.
[00:05:57] I recently closed down my [00:06:00] six month mastermind, which I started in it. The first round started in January, 2023, and I didn't make it a big thing. Like I haven't announced that it's no longer running because I will be running masterminds in the future, but it was real grief of like, Oh my gosh. It doesn't serve me anymore and if I close down that space, I will be able to have so much more space for new offers, but it still feels scary because I guess as well you have evidence of that working and the new ideas, the new things that are lighting you up, you don't have evidence for yet.
[00:06:33] Another thing that I see quite a lot is self sabotage and I say I see this because it was me. I am the person I'm talking about. Oh yeah. I definitely got to this point where I was like, I think it came down to, I wasn't really listening to what I wanted or what I needed. I was like, no, I'm going to ignore that voice in my head because I need to do what I'm supposed to do.
[00:06:54] And because I ignored myself for so long, eventually I kind of just self sabotaged everything anyway. Have you [00:07:00] experienced self sabotage or seen it with your clients? Oh, yes, I actually, so 2023 was excluding, of course, the mastermind. That was the name of it because I absolutely loved the offer. Um, but everything in my business in 2023.
[00:07:15] I see now as nine months of self sabotage and where it came from, I believe was, so I do a lot of subconscious reprogramming with my clients. I'm trained in frequency imprinting. Let me just take a sip. And when at the end of 2022, I really started to blow up with my business. I was awarded young entrepreneur of the year.
[00:07:40] I had 20 K months, 55 K in four months. And. Coming from someone who started her business in basically the 1st of January, 2021, I had so many beliefs come up around friends, around family, will anyone like me if I'm rich? And also, I wasn't managing my money well either, I was [00:08:00] very much a, I'm just gonna manifest, I literally said to my parents, I don't save.
[00:08:05] I manifest and it's hilarious because that, that version of me got me to where I got to in late 2022. But she also got me to the self-sabotage season because I remember messaging my coach when I was having these huge months and I was like, oh my God, I'm not saving for tax. I'm not like, will I need to register for VAT for a limited company?
[00:08:27] I, what do I do? Like, I'm not sure. Obviously it was. A really, really high four months when I kind of quantum leaped and I did maintain that income for a while, but then it started to drop and drop and drop and drop because like I said, I wasn't saving for tax. I was avoiding a lot of things that I knew I needed to look at.
[00:08:47] Even for example, client boundaries. If a client asked to leave a contract, I would feel it out for a whole two weeks instead of just dealing with the issue and moving forward. And it got to a [00:09:00] point where. Because I didn't know I was self sabotaging, I also went full time in my business, which I've just realized next week it's a year of being full time officially.
[00:09:09] Huge. It's not the first time I've gone full time, I'll tell you that. It still deserves a celebration. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I, this is quite like a messy story, but I had all of these beliefs around who I would be if I was rich and whether people would like me or not, but not only that, I was avoiding doing the communication that would find out if that was true or not.
[00:09:34] And so I isolated myself from my home friends. I didn't bring up issues when I was hurt by something or I took a comment to heart. And. I actually didn't realize this until around September time, where basically at the start of the year, last year was quite big for like, hating on the co on the coaching industry.
[00:09:58] It was a lot, and I [00:10:00] understand where it came from because it was clearly a lot of unethical practices. I, for personally, just like to be the change, rather than comment on what needs to change. I just don't think it It's very helpful, um, to an extent, obviously you still want to be vocal about things without making it your entire brand and I, there was someone in the industry at that time who'd made like a Facebook group who was talking about holding the coaching industry accountable and I didn't realize how much it triggered me at the time because in my childhood, when I experienced a lot of bullying, people would post on Facebook about me and tuck me in things I'm kind of like, you know, how kids are like.
[00:10:41] There's no, there's no stress. It's, it is what it is. We were all kids. I have enough of a, of a flashback checking my Facebook memories every day. But it, it wasn't until I was in a coaching session with a new coach who created this aha moment for me where I realized, Oh my [00:11:00] gosh, I was so scared of being canceled or losing it all.
[00:11:05] But also so scared of creating more because I wasn't managing my money and things like that, that I just completely sabotaged everything. I wasn't showcasing client wins. I wasn't seeing my client wins. My clients actually sat me down and was like, Jess, you don't share on your We were like, In a social setting and they were like, yeah, we have noticed you don't share our wins anymore.
[00:11:26] And I realized I wasn't seeing them. I actually wasn't seeing them because I was like, well, I'm not good enough. And if I'm not good enough, I'm not going to sell. Like I used to sell. I'm not going to say, speak what's on my mind. I'm not going to do all of these things. And so it just led to. A huge season where everything felt like an uphill struggle.
[00:11:48] And then I kind of moved out of it and I really started to heal that. And the thing that has become one of the most important stories in my business is I then got hit with a [00:12:00] 10 K tax bill, seven days. Before the payment date, because I knew my accountant had probably forgotten I existed because they weren't getting back to me.
[00:12:10] Did I chase it up? No, not until January. And so now I'm proudly on a, I want to say 22, 24 month payment plan. And I felt like the biggest failure in the world. I spoke to my dad on the phone, he's a business owner, and he was like, Jess, he, like, he's owned a business since he was like 20. And he was like, the amount of times this has happened when he was in partnership with a family member, he was like, this is fine.
[00:12:35] It's okay. And I literally remember saying, I felt like the only person in the world who had made that mistake. I love this entire conversation. There's so much I want to pull from it. One of the big things I'm getting is, um, I talk a lot about how, um, When you're first in business, you're like, Oh, what's my business name going to be?
[00:12:54] What are my products? What am I, what's my pricing? You're focused on those kinds of things. And as you [00:13:00] are a couple of years into business, you start to realize there is a lot of deeper stuff that actually is the important stuff, like the making decisions, the managing expectations, the dealing with failure, it's like all of that stuff that takes a lot of work and is significantly harder than picking a price for your program.
[00:13:17] Um, So I love that you're bringing all this up and I just love that you're so honest about this payment plan because I'm sure there are so many people on a payment plan right now who will be listening to this thinking, oh my gosh, thank gosh he's saying it. But I don't think a lot of people want to talk about that because there's this assumption that if we show the things that we have done, I don't even want to say wrong, but I'm going to use the word wrong for this scenario.
[00:13:42] We don't want to show the things we've done wrong because we think it takes away from our expertise. Absolutely. And I think. What I find, where I find the balance in this, cause this made me realize I've actually never shared officially publicly about this and I didn't even realize. I do tell everyone I'm very much [00:14:00] of an open book, but I wouldn't have been able to do that at the time when the email came through because I was, I had so much shame around it.
[00:14:08] And I think a lot of the time it's actually not about wanting to, I feel like it's not about, Not wanting to share it. It's about being too ashamed and making such a narrative about yourself that you actually don't let yourself think about what other people might take from it and what might they, what they might get from it.
[00:14:28] And so it, this is where those kind of like smoke and mirrors come from when it comes to, especially the coaching industry, because people want to keep up appearances to the point where they no longer feel an integrity, and then that impacts the way that they show up. Yeah. So how do you, in your mind, how do you hold this thought that money can be fun with this thought of, I didn't pay my tax bill because I didn't have the money and now I'm on a payment plan?
[00:14:55] How do you hold both of those at the same time? So I remember saying to my [00:15:00] coach at the time, just after this, um, tax bill came in, we had a VIP day online. And honestly, as soon as I saw that come through, I was stressed. I'm not going to lie. Had a lot of tears with my boyfriend as we tried to work it out because online it says HMRC don't offer payment plans or they only offer a certain amount of time.
[00:15:18] And the time that they say wasn't going to be viable for me at the time. I, as much as I was stressed, like so stressed when I read that email, my, my brain also said, this is. Your fault in a way. And also now you get to never do that again. Now you get to act differently. And I think for me, one of the narratives I've had to overcome is this, like, I have to learn the hard way because a lot of the time I will go, uh, in the past, I've chosen to move through the dopamine hits and the short term gratification because, Oh my God, I'm running a business.
[00:15:57] This is so cool. It doesn't have to be like a real business [00:16:00] because I'm a super manifester. And actually. I have learned a lot of things the hard way, which is great for my clients because then they don't have to, but it's also having that understanding of, I don't have to do that, but I have to move differently if I do.
[00:16:16] And so for me, having the payment plan has been really, really helpful because it now means that I'm already ahead of saving for tax. And my accountant already has all my details for this year, which is a win. And I literally emailed her like, what's the turnaround time? I'm not waiting till January. So it's that moving different, but I think as well, it's this like removing the shame because that's when money can become neutral.
[00:16:41] But I don't know if this is answering the question, but I think for me, it was this reminder of like, It's all well and good saying you'll manifest the money, but if you're not managing the money that you're manifesting, you're still going to be on the same loop. I love that. I feel like that was a mic drop moment.
[00:16:56] I feel like that was a, when you black out a bit. [00:17:00] It's true though, because there is a lot of talk about making money and signing clients, but less talk, at least when I was sort of in that state a few years ago. Let's talk around managing it, doing the right things with it, knowing how to predict what your tax is going to be.
[00:17:15] I remember my first 10k tax bill, I was like, what the hell is this? Yeah. Like, oh my gosh. My top year before was 700 pounds. And so I just thought three grand maybe, like I've been paying a lot of money out to my coach. So I just was so shocked. And then now I'm like, okay, this makes sense. And obviously payments on accounts and all of that stuff.
[00:17:41] And yeah. But you learn, don't you? And I think, you know, it's easy to be hard on yourself, but nobody teaches us these things. We're making a lot of it up as we go along. But there are going to be things that we just don't get right first time. And I think what you said there about. You know, firstly, it allows you to do things differently in future, but also you [00:18:00] are then able to kind of give that advice to your clients.
[00:18:03] And there's so many lessons that we learn that we then get to make sure our clients don't have to learn themselves because we've gone through the experience. And I feel like that's where coaching and mentoring is so amazing because we're all kind of just passing on our experiences and lessons and helping the next person.
[00:18:17] Yeah, absolutely. And I think as well, one of the, Oh, that was the thing that I said to my coach on the call, I was like, for the first time in my life, I can imagine what my finances will look like in five years. And that, that I am genuinely so grateful for that unexpected tax bill because. It was the first time in my life where I wasn't spending every penny that I had in my bank account.
[00:18:42] And whether that be on coaches, I was spending multiple full figures on a coach every single month, which I do not regret. It got me to where I am. However, there's times where it's important to move before you're ready. And then there's times where you have to notice [00:19:00] when huge investments are actually not serving your long term goal.
[00:19:04] And what I mean by that is for me, it was more of an edge to save money than to invest money into another mentor. And that showed me I'm not actually investing from the right place here, because as much as I'm very, like when I had a part time job, that was. It's so great for stability and I, I'm a, I'm a Taurus sun, Taurus moon, Capricorn rising, a lot of earth.
[00:19:25] I like to feel stable. And so I didn't leave my job until I had a lot of recurring revenue. But once I recognized actually managing my money is the big risk for me, because that was something I was never taught. And I was always from my parents, like, Oh, saving money is boring. Their own projections coming through between the two of them.
[00:19:46] I realized that actually my healing to do wasn't, wasn't to do with making a big investment. It was actually not spending the money that was in my account to the very last penny. I love this because I relate [00:20:00] to it so much. And I think there's, there's just so much to take away from this. It's like, we, we sometimes assume like this is the hard thing.
[00:20:06] This is the out of the comfort zone thing. And actually this whole conversation is just reminding me that Our comfort zones are all different. So for one person invested in that coach might be the thing that's like, Oh, that's a little bit scary, but I think it's good for me for another person. It might be not investing in the coach that gives that same reaction.
[00:20:23] And I think it's just a really nice reminder that we're all so different. Our experiences are so unique and what's right for me might not be right for you. And. I mean, that's just what it's all about, isn't it? Finding your own way. And it's that it also just so links back to like what content you take in, who you're listening to and how much you're listening to as well.
[00:20:42] Like always be taking it in with nuance because every single post that you see that says invested is your next. Next step, they don't know your limitations. They don't know your wounds. They don't know your childhood. They don't know your trauma response. They don't know whether you're neurodivergent or not.
[00:20:59] Cause we, [00:21:00] ADHD and money is like another, a whole nother thing. And they don't have to, it's not their job to have a caveat for every single possible person who reads the post, but it is our responsibility to pass every piece of information that we take in through our own eyes. Guidance system, rather than seeing everyone else as having the answer.
[00:21:20] Yeah, it's so true. And I love this because I saw a post recently that said something like stop offering one to one, it's not scalable. And I was like, like, it made me feel a bit like, Oh, because I love one to one and I don't want to stop offering it. And I don't care that it's not scalable. And then I had that realization moment where I reminded myself.
[00:21:38] That's, this is on me. This is on me on how I'm going to interpret this content and what I'm going to do with these emotions. It's not on that person who posted it. I'm, I'm a grown adult. I can figure out that she doesn't quite literally mean it as she said it. Um, before we finish up, I do just want to touch on the income kind of roller coaster of coaches and service providers.
[00:21:58] And you've sort of talked about [00:22:00] your own journey a little bit here, but there are these 10 K months followed by crickets, and it can be really hard to navigate. What advice would you give to somebody if they are on this rollercoaster where one month everything is great, the next month it's a shit show and they just cannot figure out what's going on?
[00:22:18] Okay, there's so many different places we could go with this. The first one is know how risk averse you are as a person. Because, for example, my mentor, my past mentor, she went full time from day one in business. I've gone full time and gone back to work multiple times because when I went full time in business the first time I was making 10 a month.
[00:22:41] That was not great for my mental health. I'm not going to lie. And it like, know how risk averse you are so that you can make a decision that's going to be sustainable for you. Because I, I, I'm telling you now, your coach doesn't want you to invest in them if you don't know where you're going to make that money every month.
[00:22:58] And you don't have that risk [00:23:00] averseness of, you know, Actually making it, making that money. I know I'm not that person, so I'm not going to invest from nothing. I'm always going to find a way to pay it before I invest. But the second thing, and obviously as well, if that is you have a job, have a part time job until you're making absolutely more than enough.
[00:23:18] And I mean, like my, my recurring revenue amount was 6K recurring revenue every single month before I even considered leaving my part time job. I did. I did actually, um, leave a little bit earlier than that. And then I actually had more of a shit show with clients pulling out and thousands in unpaid invoices.
[00:23:38] So again, please learn from me if that's not going to work for you. I did get through it and I'm much more stable now, but not, I would not recommend. Um, and the second thing is. Often the reason why I see an income rollercoaster is when you're not planning ahead for your business. One of the most important parts of my week is a weekly CEO morning [00:24:00] and daily CEO meetings.
[00:24:02] The daily ones are not necessary, but they really helped me get my head into gear. And then the weekly CEO meetings were the ones that I would hear everyone talk about, but didn't think were important. And it's because I was avoiding all the uncomfortable work. And what happens in them, I have actually a weekly newsletter started yesterday.
[00:24:19] So we'll see how long that lasts. Not going to lie. Um, but I share what's come up in my own CEO meeting, because I think it's really important to see someone else's behind the scenes. Look at where your offers are. Have a lack of clarity around, look at where you're doing the same thing every day by expecting different results, look at where things aren't selling and why they're not selling, like actually audit the, your own work, as well as like asking your coach for guidance and things like that, and.
[00:24:48] Plan your offers ahead of time so that you know, what's coming in and you can understand. You can actually project your income to a point because often what I find is when people are on the income rollercoaster, you end up [00:25:00] in reaction mode of, right, I've not made any money this month. What do I sell? And then it starts again the next month because you're not creating that like real understanding of how your business is working over a year.
[00:25:11] And also if you do want that most, but like highest ability. Create offers that guarantee recurring revenue for you. So longer payment plans. I currently have a 12 month payment plan for my four month mini mind, because I like to have 12 months of recurring revenue. It's great for my clients. They get to pay off early if they want.
[00:25:30] It doesn't make sense, but it works for me. Cause I love being able to look at my spreadsheets and go, I'm being paid every month for the next year. And then again, it's like someone else would say that doesn't make sense. But I know it makes sense for me. So it's checking in with what works for you. Yeah.
[00:25:47] And again, such good advice and really coming back to that whole thing of, it doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense for anyone else, because if it feels good for you and it makes sense for you and it makes you feel safe. Like, that is the most important thing, [00:26:00] regardless of what anyone else thinks or whether it obeys the kind of online Instagram coach rules or whatever.
[00:26:05] I mean, I've loved this conversation. Thank you so much. I've absolutely loved it as well. Thank you. I feel like there are so many takeaways, so many lessons that we can all just soak up from everything that you've said. So I'm so grateful. Um, where can people come and find you and how can they connect with you and get into your world?
[00:26:21] Okay, so my Instagram is the jessicapie, P Y E, which you'll probably have on the podcast name anyway. Oh, my earrings just fallen out. Um, and I, as I said yesterday, I started a weekly newsletter called CEO mail. It might become bi weekly cause I want to make sure that it's perfect for the readers, um, which I share.
[00:26:42] A lesson that I've learned in business this week, how it will apply for you. And what's coming from my CEO meetings among other things. But inside my threads bio, or you can just DM me. I have a really, really results driven workbook on how to create effective. [00:27:00] And simple, easy content, because a lot of the time we overthink it all.
[00:27:04] And because our content is for the audience and not for us, we can get mixed up in what content actually converts into clients and over a hundred people have it. It's insane. I've just done a training in my mini mind on it on Monday and the results have been amazing. So please go and download that. It's free.
[00:27:22] It's PDF. You get instant access. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thanks so much.
