[00:00:00] So today on the podcast, I have a guest back for the second time, which is really exciting. So Alice, do you want to introduce yourself? Tell us who you are and what you do. Absolutely. It's always very exciting to come back on a podcast. I think you kind of notice what's changed, haven't you? And you maybe go back and listen to the other one and you're like, wow, like things move so quickly in businesses.
[00:00:31] So thank you so much for having me back. Um, yeah, my, So my kind of introduction job title is I work as a business and marketing strategist. Um, I feel like that sounds super fancy, but it basically means I just get to spend my time chatting to amazing business owners, startups, solo entrepreneurs, helping them to just get the kind of clarity that they need to build strategies that they're going to action.
[00:00:53] And action is kind of a keyword that I'm all about helping people not just make plans, but actually put them into place in a really kind of [00:01:00] messy, but consistent and intentional way. So my main work is one to one. But there's quite a few arms of the business alongside that. So I run events, I've got a podcast, I run retreats, I've got a book coming out next week.
[00:01:11] Um, I've got stationary shop, there's probably a couple of other things that like to keep me busy. So yeah, all under the kind of umbrella aim of helping people simplify strategy and growth is kind of what I'm all about. I mean, first, before we dive into anything, I kind of want to ask you, like, how are you doing?
[00:01:27] Because you've mentioned a million things there. Also, your book is coming out at the moment. So you're on this like, you know, crazy time where you're doing all these podcasts and book tours and things. You're also moving house. So how are you? Yes. Thank you for asking that question. Um, I'm okay. I'm good.
[00:01:44] You know, it's a really full on season of life. I am really intentional about not using the word busy. It's just a personal choice. I find that when I say things are busy, it's so tempting, isn't it? People, how are you? You go, yeah, I'm busy. Yeah, things are busy. And for me, what busy Kind of [00:02:00] associates within my head is like, I'm out of control.
[00:02:02] This is happening to me. It's all very kind of overwhelming and difficult. And actually how I see it, particularly because I'm in business where you get to choose everything yourself. Like it's just full on, it's just a kind of vibrant season, which is not going to last forever. There's definitely an end point and some rest down the line.
[00:02:19] Um, but yeah, there is a lot going on. My book's coming out kind of as we record this, which I've never published a bit before. So it's a lot of new learnings, a lot of, um, You know, kind of uncertainty, a lot of pressure that I'm putting on myself. We are renovating a flat at the same time as well. So I'm currently living in a flat with no furniture in whilst my partner lives in and renovates the next flat.
[00:02:40] And I go every evening to try and help out with that. So that's fun. And then just as you know, the whole rest of running a business, you know, sadly, uh, my business doesn't pause for, you know, There's those kind of extra projects. So yeah, it it's full on. I'm really loving it. Like I have to keep reminding myself, this is what my past self dreamed of.
[00:02:58] I really remember a time early on in [00:03:00] my business. It was about eight years ago. Now we're 17 years old, new to business, and I would sit refreshing my emails. Just waiting for something to, like, even just someone to send me like a spam email. I didn't care. I was like, I just want to see some traction. It's so quiet.
[00:03:15] It's so new. And I think to my work now where the challenges, there's kind of too much going on. I think, gosh, she would have dreamed of that. She did dream of that. And so I really don't ever want to ignore what a privilege it is to have all these things happening. But the flip side of it is yet it's.
[00:03:30] It's tough. It is. I'm having to really, really focus on my habits, kind of keeping myself sane. I could go on and on. I'd say the main thing is just feeling like I can't give my all to everything. It feels like I'm being pulled in so many directions and they're all directions that I really want to go in.
[00:03:47] Um, so I'm really having to learn to kind of know when I've given enough, um, which is not really something I think I've ever figured out before. I'm a very, like Throw myself at something 150 percent kind of person. So [00:04:00] yes, long and mixed answer. It's good. I'm grateful, but it is challenging. I think I'd be lying to say like, yeah, it's all perfect.
[00:04:06] It's great. I mean, I'm definitely going to use vibrant instead of busy. I love that. Better. Right. And it feels more like what it actually is, which is exciting. Like I'm not here to glamorize. Burnout. I'm always thinking about how I can make things sustainable. But like, if you're busy quote unquote with the stuff that you love, like that's surely that was the goal.
[00:04:26] Like I think I'm all for these conversations around like balance and being kind of kind to yourself. But also I think sometimes we're so quick to, you know, brand, if things are full on with like, that's a bad thing. When actually, if you're full on with the stuff that you really wanted, like, there's something about that that is really exciting.
[00:04:44] Yeah. So yeah, always recommend. Full on, vibrant. What does one of my friends say? I think she just said it's a very colourful time at the moment. Love it. So pick your own word. No, it's important, isn't it, to have that reframe? Because I think, like you said, it's easy to be like, oh my goodness, this is, like you say, out of my [00:05:00] control.
[00:05:00] And it's just so much. But I guess This is like a real sign for you that things are working, right? Because like you said, a few years ago, you wouldn't have been this busy. Do you think it was just a time thing, but like for you to get to this point, or did you do anything differently where suddenly everything's happening at once?
[00:05:18] Good question. I think part of it is just time and consistency. You know, I've worked with so many incredible business owners and I'm always curious to try and work out like what has made you successful? Like these people that, you know, I really look up to them and then I get the privilege of working with them and I'm like, Oh, I'm so excited to figure out like what's the secret source.
[00:05:37] And I'm often realizing the same thing, which is the only thing every single person I that's successful has in common is consistent action. Like they just Put in the work. And I think most importantly, you put in the work when you're not seeing any of that momentum or traction back. Um, it's so tempting, isn't it?
[00:05:54] The way that online world is to look at someone and think, Oh my gosh, that's what they woke up with. But actually [00:06:00] there's years often a graft that goes into that. So I think that's definitely a kind of the most key piece, but I would say kind of about a year ago, I think something that really clicked in my head was realizing like, I'm in full control of my business.
[00:06:15] I think it can be really easy, just like you were saying then to kind of feel like things are happening to you and your business is kind of this like, you know, external being that just decides what it's going to be. And to an extent, obviously we cannot control everything because we can't control the way people react to our business or set, you know, we can influence things, but we can't control them.
[00:06:32] But I think I really realized what was in my sphere of influence. So even thinking a bit more, I'm really intentional about kind of reverse engineering my goals. So a good example of this is about six months ago, I was like, um, actually came from a place of jealousy, which I'm not ashamed to admit. I saw someone that I know doing a brand partnership with a really big brand.
[00:06:52] And I was like, I'm so jealous. I'm really annoyed. They've got that. Why haven't I got it? And then as we often do, I sat with that feeling and realized like, Oh, I [00:07:00] haven't got it. Cause I'm not putting in the work that would get me opportunities like that. And I'm not allowed to sit and moan that I'm not getting offered those brand opportunities.
[00:07:06] If my content is so poor that those brands. Would never want to work with me. So then I really intentionally went right. If I was going to reverse engineer this, what do they need to see to give me these opportunities? Did that put in the work? And then literally the day we're recording this, a brand partnership with Meta that I've done is like the most insane big brand I could have dreamed of working with has come out.
[00:07:28] And so I think, yes, there's always an element isn't there of kind of luck in the right place at the right time. But I would say, I think I've really learned what can I control. And then how can I control that thing really consistently, even when it feels like nothing. coming back. And I think the nature of business is you can't control when it comes back.
[00:07:45] You know, ideally all of these things that are happening for me at the moment would have their own, you know, few months to really breathe. But businesses to an extent do kind of do what they want, don't you? So you put in all the work and I think you then have to be really open just to see how, if, and [00:08:00] when it might start to come back to you.
[00:08:02] Yeah, and I think this is one of the things that a lot of people struggle with, and I've definitely been there, where you feel like you're putting so much in, and like nothing is coming out the other end, and you're thinking, you know, maybe people are looking at you and thinking, oh my gosh, she's got a book deal, and she's doing all these brand partnerships, and why have I not got those things?
[00:08:20] Yeah. You think, again, it comes back to just consistency. Um, I think it's a mix of things, isn't it? I think we're so kind of inclined to want there to be one thing, to be like there is a secret, there's a strategy, there's a tip, and we see it in the online space, don't we? Like, here's the blueprint for this, or the secret, and like, If you dive deep enough, you don't have to dive that deep actually to realize that those things don't really exist, everyone's business is so different.
[00:08:46] I think if I reflect on almost a combination of things, not just in my business, but in people that I know as well, I think it's a combination of that consistent action. I think it's obviously then making sure your action is not, you know, just kind of any action, but it's as intentional as [00:09:00] it can be, can be being the key word, not waiting for it to feel perfect or to feel ready, but just doing what you can with what you know.
[00:09:07] I think it's, you know, important to acknowledge that privilege is always going to play a role in it as well. You know, whether that be the privilege of the network that you already have, the kind of spaces that you're in, also the privilege that you have to take risks and be consistent. You know, I think back to my first couple of years in business, I lived with my family.
[00:09:24] I was 17 years old. I had the privilege of their financial support in the sense of I didn't have to pay rent. They were buying the food I was eating and that privilege allowed me to be consistent for two years without having to really make any money. Like that is a huge thing to acknowledge. So I would never want someone to go, Oh, I'm beating myself up because I can't spend two years.
[00:09:45] Not making any money, you know, everyone starts from a different standing point with a different set of kind of privilege, you know, almost in that, um, I guess kind of, you know, helping them. And I think as well, just a part of it is always just a bit of timing and [00:10:00] luck, right? You can't, I don't know if I love the phrase, but I do resonate with that idea of like, you don't kind of, you can, you luck can exist, but you're not, if you're not in the right place to receive that luck.
[00:10:10] It's not going to work for you. Does that make sense? Like there might be a bit of luck and randomness involved, but like you've still got to put in the work to kind of be open to that. So yeah, I think it's a combination of all of those things. And probably the final thing I'd say that I think often gets ignored with a consistent action is it's also then about learning and experimenting and changing the plan as you take action.
[00:10:30] You know, just going, okay, Alice said consistent action. So I'm going to be consistent for the next two years at this one thing. If over those two years you never step back and go, what's the data telling me? What's working? What's not? How can I experiment? You're never going to learn what the right action is.
[00:10:46] So I think that's important to be said as well. Like it's consistent in terms of what you're doing, but maybe how you're doing it should be evolving and improving based on what you learn and what you notice. I'm so glad you bring this up because I think sometimes there is this [00:11:00] confusion between like consistency and just like going a hundred mile an hour at all the things and never stopping to check the things that are working, which can feel so exhausting.
[00:11:09] It's like, you're going to hit burnout. You're going to feel overwhelmed. You're going to feel like, oh my gosh, nothing I do is happening. But actually sometimes part of that consistency is like stopping, right? To reflect on, Is what I'm doing working, what does the data say? Mm. Completely agree with that.
[00:11:24] And actually, as you, you know, asked that question earlier of kind of what's maybe happened over the last few years for my business to kind of have this momentum, I would say one of the biggest things that to me in the past felt really counterintuitive and I never did it was resting and looking after myself.
[00:11:39] I used to think If I sacrifice my personal well being, the business will grow. I saw it as a trade off. Um, and I really do think that trade offs exist in business would be silly not to acknowledge them, right? Like you do have to give some stuff up willingly in order sometimes to access certain goals if you want to be moving at a certain pace.
[00:11:57] But I think I'd always put in that category, [00:12:00] like my health. And I don't know, maybe right at the start of the business, that was the way it needed to be. You know, I'd never want to be one of those people that said, You know, eight years in and going, I wish I'd just taken more time off at the start because like I don't know.
[00:12:12] I worked really, really hard at the start, and I think that was probably part of what helped the business grow. But I've definitely seen over the last few years, actually, that's starting to become harmful. You know, my physical and my mental health was just at the bottom of the list. And I think it must have been almost Four years ago now, I started taking the whole of August off, just a full month to kind of rest and reset.
[00:12:35] Um, over the last year, I've really, really worked on my kind of personal habits. My mental and physical health is in the best place it's been. And I think I'd always thought putting me first means the business comes last. And I guess that's sometimes true. Maybe if it's like, you know, putting me first by taking two weeks off every month, but actually I think what, what I've learned for me is like putting me first in terms of my wellbeing does help the business.
[00:12:57] And like you said, we can think. growth and [00:13:00] consistency is always on, but actually I think growth and consistency is about intentionally being on and then intentionally being off, whether that's to rest, reflect, whatever it might be. So yeah, I'm really glad you brought that up. So I don't think that gets acknowledged a lot, does it?
[00:13:13] And it can all sound a bit toxic. No, definitely. And like, No one's gonna be able to see you right now listening to this, but you look really well. But I mean, if you were selling a skincare routine, I'd be buying it. Moisturizer. Fresh moisturizer is what gives the shine. But thank you. And I, you know, I take that compliment and that feedback because I really feel I've worked.
[00:13:34] to have that. Like, I think I just never saw, it sounds so silly now, but like, this is really just how I thought. I was just like, no, I'm just one of those people where how I treat myself and how I feel just doesn't really, it just doesn't link up. I can sit on TikTok all evening, eat rubbish, be on my phone all the time, never move my body.
[00:13:53] And like, actually, I think that's, that's me at my best. And I don't know where that came from, I'm sure there's some reflection for me to [00:14:00] do of kind of why I interpreted that that was, you know, I was the exception to the rule. Um, but yeah, it's just really clicked for me recently of like, oh, maybe what all those people are saying of like, those things help you is actually true.
[00:14:13] I think I just didn't want it to be true because it is hard work. I think I was like, surely I'm fine the other way. But yeah, it turns out. It is true. Yeah. I mean, it takes time. Doesn't it? Like you kind of live and learn and you make the mistakes and then you're like, Oh, maybe I should be, you know, eating some vegetables.
[00:14:29] I know. Like it's, it's almost like an extra thing, isn't it? I guess with business, like it takes up a lot of our time and energy, especially in the early days and to then be like, Oh, and I've also got to do all these other things in my life. I do think for me at least. It was kind of like, I've got to pick a priority and the business had to be priority for a certain amount of time before I could then sort of let that run itself a little bit more.
[00:14:55] And then my priority could be like, okay, let me focus on my health. Yes, completely that. And I think even [00:15:00] then in those categories, it's prioritizing even further. Isn't it? Like I've definitely in the past got swept up in everyone else's kind of versions of success. You know, I went, okay, if I'm going to be.
[00:15:12] You know, more intentional with my wellbeing. I need to be journaling every day. I need to be doing these other, you know, blah, blah, whatever other habits came to mind. And like, just truthfully for me, it's not sustainable to do all of the things. So what I really learned is like, what's my bare minimum.
[00:15:25] Like I've got three habits a day that I just have as non negotiables and exactly like you said, I think something often has to give, and I think it's just making sure whatever is the thing that's giving is an intentional. Give, like I would say in my life at the moment, the thing that's giving is absolutely my personal life.
[00:15:43] Like I literally had to text all of my friends about two weeks ago and be like, you probably won't see me for six weeks and I'm not proud of that, but that's just the trade off I'm going to have to make. Because if you think of it almost as three categories of like, work, personal, and then kind of social.
[00:15:57] You know, it's a pie chart. You can't make that [00:16:00] circle any bigger. If something else increases, something else needs to decrease. I think, like you said, it's not holding that really like strict standard of everything has to be perfect. Like growth takes focus. You can't focus on multiple things at once. Um, so yeah, I think you're completely right.
[00:16:15] And all of this, you know, I probably sound right now. Like I'm like doing these things perfectly, but I'm not, I think it's just going every day. Isn't it like, what can I do today that would honor, like, what feels important to me? Um, and yeah, realizing that you can't have it all, unlike all the media likes to tell you.
[00:16:30] I know, yeah, maybe part of it is that we have this like idea of what it's supposed to look like that we can never achieve. So it's like, well, if I can't get there, what's the point? Um, I love this conversation because this is not where I thought we were going to go, but but I do want to come back to your book because this is like a huge thing.
[00:16:49] Um, how did this come about and when did you find out about it and how did you react when you found like, tell me all the things. Of course. So the first kind of touch point with the process of publishing this [00:17:00] book was June 22nd, 2022. So almost exactly two years ago. My book, um, comes out on June 20th. So it feels very full circle that it's like almost exactly two years on from that first conversation that it's coming out.
[00:17:15] Um, proof that writing a book is not quick. Uh, I'd really, Never had a project last this long in my business before. Um, but yeah, the kind of first touch point and what happened on June 22nd was I received an email from my publishers, um, from a brilliant woman called Liz, who's now my kind of commissioning editor of the book.
[00:17:34] And it was basically this email that just said, Hey, we are blah, blah, blah publishers. We want to publish a book about digital marketing. We've come across you. These are the things we like about your approach. Would you be interested in writing it? Having shared that kind of start point with a lot of people, I don't think that's a common way for a book to begin.
[00:17:51] You know, typically you'll find someone is either approached to write a book and the publisher will say like, what do you want to write it on? Like, we want you as the writer, you [00:18:00] tell us your book idea. I think that's for like, you know, you'd imagine you're You're big celebrities or you're like, you know, X love Island stars are getting requests like that all the time because they just want you.
[00:18:09] And they're like, what, what do you want to write? I think the other approach is probably more standard for business owners is you pitch your book. So you maybe write a proposal or you get a book agent and then you kind of go to your publishers. I am incredibly grateful that my publisher came to me because I can honestly say this book would never have happened if they hadn't.
[00:18:27] Um, my first thought, or kind of some of my first thoughts when I got that email, I was like, first of all, is this spam? You know, when you're just reading an email about five times over, like, I'm double checking none of the red flags are here. Okay, you've spelt my name right. You actually seem to know what I do.
[00:18:39] I've looked you up on LinkedIn. You do exist. I was like, that was my first thought. And then my second thought was just like, I've never thought about writing a book before. Like I'd thought maybe one day I would write a book about kind of my business story, but you know, not age 26 or 24 at the time. I was like, you know, no one wants to kind of autobiography style book for [00:19:00] a 24 year old.
[00:19:00] There's not a lot to share there. So that's kind of all I'd ever thought about was like, yeah, maybe one day I'd do a more personal book. And it was really the first time I'd thought about maybe like bringing my practical expertise into a book setting. Um, I remember being very excited and it was amazing to me how quickly in those couple of weeks I went from, I've never thought about writing a book before to like, I'm going to be gutted if this book deal doesn't come through.
[00:19:25] And if this publisher doesn't want it, I'll probably take it elsewhere. Cause I really, really fell in love with the idea. Um, so yeah, that's how it came about. And I think that story is such a good example of the power of like personal brand and putting yourself out there. Like, you know, I didn't reverse engineer it, but I do think about, right, what do I want to be invited to do?
[00:19:45] And how can I show up in a way that's going to get me Those kind of opportunities. Um, so yeah, very grateful. And then it took about four or five months to get the deal signed. It was quite a length, like it, it was definitely offered to me, but then it was [00:20:00] a very much like, okay, now you prove to us why you've got the book idea.
[00:20:04] So there was, I wouldn't say it came easy. I had to work for it to kind of get that contract signed. Um, lots of negotiation because book contracts are, Incredibly complicated. Um, and then yeah, signed the deal towards the end of 2022. Wrote it 23, and then yeah, coming out in 2024. That makes it sound like a really quick and easy process.
[00:20:24] But there you go. It's, I feel like it's a story you're going to be telling like, For the rest of your life. I'm sure everyone around me is like bored of it. I sent a picture in my family group chat yesterday. I found my book in Waterstones for the first time. And I put it in the group chat. Like no one replied for like four or five hours.
[00:20:42] And I was like, fair enough. We're all done with this. You were done about a year and a half ago. I love though that it just I mean firstly I love that you're talking about it because as someone who has no idea about the process but would potentially be interested in the future, it's really interesting to hear like your experience and the fact that it took two years as [00:21:00] well, like that's something I don't think a lot of people would know.
[00:21:02] Um, is there anything in particular in that initial email that they said to you, we really love? this about what you do that you would then advise other people to do if they wanted to get a book deal? Yes, definitely. I think on reflection and having spoken, you know, I've asked my publishers in a lot more detail, like, what do you look for?
[00:21:23] You know, even if someone's pitching to you, what are kind of the metrics that you look for? And I've really kind of understood there's kind of two key parts to it. The first key part is very universal and it's an, uh, annoys me that this is the case, but it just is, is audience size. You know, I've got, uh, you know, when people add all of their numbers together and then say like, I've got many, many, and I'm like, it's probably loads of the same people.
[00:21:43] So I'm not going to do like the big number, but I'd probably say like Instagram, for example, is around 16, 000 would have been a couple thousand lower than that at the time. So I'm not saying that as like, you know, I haven't got hundreds of thousands of followers. But I guess it's more than a couple of thousand.
[00:21:57] So I think that does play a role. But [00:22:00] having said that, I know people that get book deals with a far smaller or bigger audience. One of the things that book publishers love is a newsletter list. Unsure why. I think they're a little bit stuck in the dark ages, the publishing industry. So they love if you've got an email list.
[00:22:15] And then I'd say the other side of it, which is obviously more unique, is like really bringing your way of doing things into your content. Um, quite early on in my business, I realized that just kind of like sharing generic stuff in a generic way or emulating other people just wasn't gonna cut it. And I really did some work and it was, it was messy work.
[00:22:33] It wasn't quick of working out what my. So for me, it's all about keeping things impactful, transparent, um, playful and kind. And particularly those first three, like impactful, transparent and playful. I'm really intentional about bringing that into the way that I show up online. Because to me, those are the things that make people remember me, choose me.
[00:22:55] And the kind of things that I think make people go, Oh yeah, they know about marketing. To like, Ah, they know about [00:23:00] marketing and the way they do that. Also resonates with us. So they said in that initial email, I won't get the words perfectly right, but basically loads of the marketing books out there are just overly complex.
[00:23:10] And we really love your approach of how kind of actionable and practical things are. So I think that was specifically for me, what they resonated with. And I think then how anyone applies that to themselves is again, probably reverse engineering. Like if your style had to be kind of captured in a few words, like what would that style be?
[00:23:29] And then how intentional are you about bringing that into the external stuff? Because what I often notice, and I don't know if you see this with your clients as well, is often in their business, they are so authentic, but they really struggle to make that externally visible. You know, as soon as they take external action, it all has to feel a bit more rigid or corporate or bland.
[00:23:47] And so for me, it's always, how can I make someone feel that they really, really know me just from engaging in the external content and communication within my business? And I know this is something you do really well because I've [00:24:00] followed you for such a long time. And if somebody said, who knows about marketing?
[00:24:03] I would be like, well you. You would be my first thought. Obviously it works. Um, I have like so many questions and I don't want to take up like five hours of your day. Oh my gosh, Gemma, I'm loving this chat. This is like the most interesting podcast chat I've had about book. I'm loving it. I mean, okay, where do I begin?
[00:24:21] I want to ask about a post you put out recently. Feel free to give me like the brief answer. Um, you talked about passive income. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that? And I guess what are you doing about your thoughts on that? Oh, I like that second question. So in answer to the first question, my thoughts on passive income are, uh, I don't think it exists in its true definition.
[00:24:44] I understand why people use the phrase, But truly passive income, I think unless you've got a fully automated sales process. That you never have to tweak yourself and a team that handles all of the kind of bits and bobs involved [00:25:00] in, you know, sustaining that income, or even just delivering on the income that you've generated.
[00:25:05] It's not fully passive. Like I get that it needs its own phrase because it's different to, you know, like one to one delivery streams or like, Things that you're delivering live, right? So what I've understood for myself, and this is what I talk about with my clients, is I call it scalable income, not passive income.
[00:25:22] Because to me, scalable income acknowledges, yeah, it's different. You can make more money without necessarily needing to then scale the amount of time you're putting in. But I just don't think it's passive in the sense of like, you know, lay on a beach and just make sales and never have to do a thing. Um, the kind of learning experience that I took this from was, Eight years into my business, which for many might seem like a long time to not have done anything kind of quote unquote passive, I launched an online shop and I went into it so curious and I was really open.
[00:25:50] Maybe I would realize that passive income did exist. But what I realized was like, yes, I made a load more money from that than I would have, if I'd have spent that time doing one to one [00:26:00] client work. So yes, it was, it was scaled income, but there was still so much time involved, so much time, not just creating the product, right?
[00:26:09] Let's imagine you've already made back your money from the creation, just the upkeep. You know, even today, this morning I opened my inbox and there were three emails from customers related to those products I'd sold. It's not passive, is it? If I have to reply to those three emails and help those people, which obviously I did, um, you know, the marketing of it is huge, so I won't go on and on and on.
[00:26:29] I did a whole podcast episode about it if people want to learn more. But yeah, my thoughts are, it's a thing, but I just don't think it should be called passive. I think that gives people really unrealistic expectations. And what I'm doing about that, which is a good question, because it's not really something I've been able to do a lot with.
[00:26:43] I went quite quickly from that season into this, which has been quite full on. for having me. Is when I kind of come back to being able to work on my business a bit more, what I want to work out is how do I continue the revenue from that? What I've noticed, and I've seen this with a couple of my clients recently as well, [00:27:00] is that these kind of scalable revenue streams, like digital products.
[00:27:03] I'm really quite easy to, to succeed when you're launching them. But the hard part is how do you then keep those sales up once the launch launch hype is done? They're not new anymore. You're not doing some big sale. Like, how do you keep the sales going? So for me, that's now my focus. Well, will be my focus when I get a bit of time back is going to be, yeah.
[00:27:22] How do I keep this up? Because I don't want to have to keep making a new digital product every time I want to make this scalable income that makes it less scalable. So, yeah, that's probably going to be my focus kind of September to September to November, and then November, December is a bit of a busy season.
[00:27:37] Um, yeah. And also just telling everyone that I can, that passive income doesn't exist and being ready to reply to the trolls and the people that, I think I'm lying. Which has happened a lot since I've shared about it. Well, that was going to be my next question. Was that a scary thing to do? Because as much as, like, I totally agree with you, and I know there's been so many people who agree with you as well.
[00:27:57] I'm sure there are people who didn't like your stance on that. [00:28:00] Completely. And I'll say this because this feels like a safe space to say it. I personally think people's dislike for it comes off the back of the fact that they capitalize on people believing that passive income exists. People were not annoyed who just had businesses that they ran.
[00:28:16] The only people that have expressed annoyance when I click on their profile, well, they're a business coach, or they're a mindset coach, or they're a passive income coach, or they're a, you know, six figure, whatever crap coach, like, you know, obviously nothing against coaching. Coaching's a lot of what I do in my work.
[00:28:32] But I think people want people to believe that passive income is this kind of golden ticket because If you get them to believe it's a golden ticket, you can sell them the golden ticket. And once you've sold them the golden ticket, you've got loads of money and like, who cares then what they then find out down the road.
[00:28:48] Um, so yeah, that was their response. I really struggle with negative backlash. I think I probably come across as someone I think who probably looks like they handle stuff like that quite well. But I am [00:29:00] super sensitive. Like unbelievably, even if someone gives me just something constructive to feedback on, it really takes me a lot of work to process that and not be thinking about it.
[00:29:08] So I fall asleep and, you know, swirling it around in my head. So I was really nervous about that. But the more that I got it and the more that I got it from people who were, like I said, probably just annoyed 'cause maybe I was gonna burst their bubble. Um, I think I was like, oh. It's fine. There was also quite a few people that were quite funny that were like, my passive income is passive though, it only takes me 20 minutes a day.
[00:29:30] And I was like, do you see what you've done there? You've just proved that you're wrong. Thank you very much. So yeah, always fun when you try and say something different, isn't it? Got to be ready for that response. I, I think it takes people to go first though. And actually when I saw you do that, it made me think about, okay, what are some of the things that I want to say that I'm maybe not big enough about?
[00:29:51] So I think actually what you've probably unintentionally done is inspire a bunch of people to do similar things, which I think is huge. Yeah. And on [00:30:00] it, like that's always kind of been my thing in business. And there's been times where I've stuck my neck out a bit too far and I've learned that lesson that sometimes, you know, don't need to be the thought leader and everything.
[00:30:09] Um, but. That's nine times out of 10, like, I'm always so glad that I do it. So like for you to like do it, like, I think it's one of the best ways to position yourself as a thought leader is quite literally lead the thoughts. If you're saying the same thing as everyone else, you're not a thought leader, you're a part of the crowd.
[00:30:24] And every now and again, that's obviously fine. I say things that everyone else says, but if you, and you know, also don't come up with something controversial for the sake of it, but yeah, if you have that like thing in you that you're like, Oh, I just wish I could say that. Say it. Like, I just think the world needs more of that.
[00:30:39] Can you share? Like, what's one of the things for you that you'd love to talk more about? Because I bet you talk about it with your clients, but it's just the public sharing. Yeah, it's a, I have a few things. A lot of my things are like about psychology. I feel like I have a good understanding of some of the things that I'll talk, like for example, sales psychology.
[00:30:57] A lot of people talk about sales psychology, but [00:31:00] when I look at it with 10 years of psychology experience, it's not sales psychology. And actually some of the things that are being used are actually harmful and have been proven to be harmful. But there is a real gap between the sort of Instagram coach who's talking about these things versus the, I don't know, like the universities that are doing the research.
[00:31:20] So a piece of research comes out that says we don't do this anymore, like it's been proved to be really quite harmful. So. That doesn't then get back to the coach who is teaching it to a million people. Yes. I think what I need to do is clarify all those words I just said to you into something that's a bit more, a bit more catchy.
[00:31:38] That's so neat of those Gemma, like I would be the first, tell me when that post is out because like, I'm there, I'm so fascinated by that. That needs to be talked about, needs to be said. And I will say like, I think I get a higher than normal number of people disagreeing with me. Cause I think people kind of just do it for fun sometimes.
[00:31:56] I just genuinely think that message is something everyone will receive so well. Like people are just [00:32:00] going to be like, God, thank you. Someone said it. Um, and I think it's remembering, isn't it? Like. Yes, there's loud voices that are maybe saying the opposite, but that doesn't mean that that's what everyone wants to hear.
[00:32:10] There'll be so many people in your world that are just craving something a bit more honest. Um, so yeah, I'm here for that. To be continued. Can we finish off? And during the podcast episode, that's the other thing I'd say, because you can, you can say more and more nuance. Like my only post about passive income was a stupid, like spoof video that I made.
[00:32:30] Cause I was like, if I try and This would be cool. Yeah. Don't ask. I had a few roses. It wasn't my finest moment, but um, yeah, do it like, I think give yourself a longer form place because obviously then you can share more nuance and disclaimers and yeah, don't have to make it Instagrammy. Sorry, back to you.
[00:32:46] No, I just want to finish off with, you know, marketing is your thing. Um, what would be a couple of tips for anyone who's listening, thinking, Marketing is just something I'm struggling with right now. What are your kind of like starting points for someone who's struggling? [00:33:00] Hmm. Good question. So I break marketing strategy down into three steps and that's kind of the three almost kind of sections that the book is split into, and then there's many chapters within each section.
[00:33:11] It was what the second I read that email about writing the book, I knew I was like, it's going to be formulated in this way, They initially wanted to call it the three step marketing strategy, and I just felt sick at how boring that sounded. Um, so that's a story for another day. But yes, the three steps I recommend people follow in the three kind of phases are getting clarity, building a plan, and then taking action.
[00:33:31] So if someone's stuck, I always recommend do one thing in each of those areas, because often we're stuck in one of those areas, or we need a bit of help in all of them. So to give people just some quick action steps, if you start with step one, getting some clarity, Spending even just 10 minutes making some notes on what you want to be known for, and how you want your business to be perceived, what kind of goals you want your marketing to achieve, who you want to attract within your community, you know, pick one of those prompts that resonates.
[00:33:57] Just spending 10 minutes helping yourself get a bit more [00:34:00] clarity serves you so well. You know, I really believe clarity gives you confidence, makes sure that your plan is aligned in the best way. So whether that's doing a bit of inner reflection, market research, looking at the data, that's kind of an action step to get more clarity.
[00:34:13] Then the second step of plan, an action step here obviously depends kind of on where you're at, but I'd always recommend people just bring it back to the basics of going, what am I actually doing in my marketing? Like literally the bare minimum of just list out your platforms and like, why are you using each of them?
[00:34:29] Because I really don't believe we need to be anywhere, everywhere. So if you sit down and go, right, I'm on Instagram. And I use that as my kind of community and nurture platform. I use ads to help with my visibility and I use email marketing to help with my conversion. Even if you're just reminding yourself of what you already know, I think it just helps you bring it back to the plan, to your plan, cut out the noise, ignore what other people are doing.
[00:34:51] And then that third step of action. Uh, my favorite question here is to ask yourself, what's going to get in the way of my marketing happening consistently. It [00:35:00] sounds like a pessimistic question, but it's amazing how quickly people know the thing. It's different for everyone, you know, people will say, I know it, it's comparison.
[00:35:07] Or it's lack of time management. Or it's getting distracted by that shiny new platform or strategy. Or it's fear of what might happen if I show up. Like, ask yourself that question, see what comes up, and then think about, right, and now what can I do to help myself? With that thing. So you could either do an action step for each of those areas, clarity, plan and action, or pick one that resonates and, uh, see how that helps you.
[00:35:29] My biggest thing with marketing strategy is to stop thinking that it needs to be a 78 page PDF, a really complex spreadsheet. Marketing strategy is just. a bit of a plan. So let it be messy is always my recommendation. In short, go and buy the book. Yes, the book has a lot in it. 50, 000 words of marketing chat.
[00:35:50] So that's a good place to go. Well, thank you so much for your time when you are so busy. Where can people come and find you? Where can they buy the book? Yes, of [00:36:00] course. So my main kind of hangout online is definitely Instagram. So people are welcome to find me there. I'm just Alice underscore Benham. My podcast has hundreds of episodes around kind of all manner of business and marketing topics and some really great guests, and that's called starting the conversation.
[00:36:15] Um, the book is available on my website. If you just go to alicebenham. co. uk forward slash book. Uh, all of the links, it's, uh, physical audio read by me, ebook, all of the versions available. Um, and yeah, come and say hi. Like I love doing stuff like this. So genuinely Gemma, thank you for having me. Like this is a highlight of my, of my week rather than something that I have to do.
[00:36:36] So just thanks for sharing your platform with me and having me back on.
